OT - NBA & Politics
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This was started yesterday, and we have a 2 page thread about NSD up, only 5 post today, not what I call most attention. Wait, the thread was started Monday.
I don't think the presidents sets much of an example when it comes to how one should respond. However a little more restraint and or courtesy by all would likely be a big help
Not gonna disagree with you there. Im just tired of MS ESPN reporters and shows bringing up politics.
I'm not talking about all famous people. As annoying as it is, I don't really care about hollywood types talking about it, because their time "on the clock" is filming. My issue is when a sports player, giving a sports interview after one of his/her games, or taking a phone call from a sports show, or makes a twitter post tagging their team's page in it, or otherwise representing their team makes politically fueled statements. That is exploiting a platform given to you by said team, meaning you're on the clock. That is not what the program pays you to do. It's extremely unprofessional. You're paid to entertain, and talk about your entertainment on the clock.
Is it going to change? Probably not. Am I going to change your mind? Probably not. Do I care? Probably not. This is just my opinion and I don't really care about how it is spun, but wrong is wrong. I follow these players because of what they do. Constantly exploiting that platform to talk about things that have nothing to do what they do, loses my respect, and apparently I'm not the only one given the loss of ratings, viewers, and subscribers/followers over the last year.
I can handle normal political views. It's the pure hatred from the left that is disgusting right now. Pissing on the flag and our military. Ranting and raving about our president, calling him every nasty name in the book, disrespecting the office of the president, and making it personal. THAT is where people have problems. If you want to oppose something he's done and claim that there's a better way, fine. But making it personal and degrading our country, our leadership, our military, our police officers, etc is crossing the line.
And all for what? Because a bunch of left wing crybaby snowflakes are mad that their candidate didn't win? Grow up and stop being such pansies. You get another shot in 3 years. But you will lose again if you don't get your heads out of your asses and grow up.
And all for what? Because a bunch of left wing crybaby snowflakes are mad that their candidate didn't win? Grow up and stop being such pansies. You get another shot in 3 years. But you will lose again if you don't get your heads out of your asses and grow up.
I am prepared for the flames about to be spewed at me. If anyone actually thinks that any NFL player kneeled out of hatred for the USA, then you are completely missing the point. I have never been pulled over for being white. It is hard to for me to understand, but I get where they are coming from. Those that say these Black Athletes should protest on their own dime are missing the fact that this is the only platform they have.
Last count, there are 1,335 active NFL players. Fewer than 20 kneeled before Trump called them SOBs. Then you had around 250 kneeling. Lots of our players wear shirts that are Pro Kapernick. If you hate the NFL "thugs" then you probably hate our "thug" players as well.
The NFL has major problems. This racial divide being one. Another, what the fvck is a catch? Most significantly, this game is killing people way before their time.
Neeagle, Thank You for ur service. I thank all of you that served. Not a better breed of people.
I just wish everyone can take a step back and look at life through a different set of eyes.
I love this University, and I love all of you (including Legendary)!
Find a better way to bring attention to an issue than pissing on our flag and disrespecting our military. The NFL is receiving the wrath that they asked for as seats sit empty, tickets are going for $6, and ratings are falling rapidly. They underestimated American pride, and how people would react when you piss on our country.
I respect your view and the view of those with opposing political ideology. However, I am a big believer in professionalism. As the OP said, just straight dog-cussing and trashing the POTUS at every opportunity (especially without specifically point out where he's wrong with opposing facts) is just wrong. Doing it from your sports-giving platform, is wrong and unprofessional. I don't care that it's the only platform they have. It's unprofessional.
I'm sorry, there were a lot more than 20 kneeling before Trump's comments. There were more than that on one team on opening weekend. Media just didn't talk about but a handful of them.
This goes a lot deeper than a racial divide, and I know I am opening a can of worms, but refer to all those who break down the statistics and then cite the instances of being pulled over just for being "black." In most cases, the neighborhoods they were in were thick with gang violence. In many cases, they matched the description of a wanted suspect, and when questioned, didn't cooperate (e.g. Philando Castille). That is what it boils down to. All of the black men and women who share their stories of being pulled over and questioned by the police, but cooperated and did everything the LEO told them to do and they had a short and to the point stop and went about their day no problems. They don't get attention. It's the controversial and damning ones that get front page. I don't deny there are still racial problems in America! Never have. It's there. Dirty cops are there. However, I am tired of the agenda that black Americans are the only ones with a problem and the only victims of racism. What about the many muslim Americans that still deal with profiling stemming from 9/11 and other attacks? What about Americans of Middle Eastern decent who are profiled because refugee countries is a hot topic right now? What about whites that live in or pass through a rough neighborhood and are attacked because they are white? What about Latinos who are profiled by blacks and whites because illegal immigration is a hot topic right now? I've even heard of a russian national, here legally, detained by the FBI for questioning because he took a tourism trip to DC.
Racism and profiling is everywhere. You have to put it in perspective. My take is that there is a right and wrong way to fight it. You feel you were pulled over on the basis of your race? Cooperate, then take his ass to court later. Everyone lives. You think the state flag is divisive or whatever, take the issue to court and force a vote. You think blacks in this country are oppressed? Go campaign for a black leader to affect change. Go raise money for a foundation. However, don't do it on the clock. Don't turn a sports interview into a political bitch-fest. Don't kneel during the anthem while you are in uniform paid to perform.
There is a right and a wrong way to fight it.
The above statements are my opinion only, and do not reflect the University of Southern Mississippi, the US Army, or any other association with which I am affiliated. I am on my own time. If you don't agree with it, that is great, but don't turn this into a fight. I'd be happy to discuss rationally.
How far does your "There is a right and a wrong way to fight it" go? I understand the idea that when you are on the job, you should not be espousing personal opinions and taking personal stands (in my job, you will virtually never find me taking a political position -- and I would be in serious trouble if I did). But athletes have done this forever. Every athlete who "thanks Jesus" for his performance or takes time in his post-game interview to discussion religion is espousing his personal views and taking a position that is not necessarily supported by his employer.
Is your concern really with the timing of his statements and his use of the platform provided to him? Or is it the message?
I don't know your views, and you may tell me that you also oppose all the athletes who proselytize in post-game interviews, but I think the vast majority of people complaining about black athletes expressing political views are really focused on content that they don't like, and use the "time and place" argument as cover when they would never apply a "time and place" argument to athletes taking positions that they support.
And for the record, I am opposed to the athletes kneeling during the national anthem -- I think it is disrespectful to our military and people who served -- and I will also defend their right to kneel, because I think the ability and right to complain about our government is more important than honoring the military.
S
Sometimes we tend to forget that they are employees, who offer a service, and are paid for that service. They can kneel do whatever they want in their free time, but as long as tax payer dollars are used to build the buildings they play in, and their employer says stand, then they should stand. Talk about politics away from the arena of play, don't mix it.
Sometimes we forget that Donald Trump is the President. Not the NFL commissioner. No right to call those guys Sons of Bitches. Agreed. Let's keep politics out of football.
So you took the same position with regard to Tebow kneeling after touchdowns?
How is Tebow kneeling disrespecting the flag, the military, or causing a disruption? Talk about an apples and hand grenades comparison.
I think that you could change all this from the plural to the singular and it would apply with equal force to Trump.
One is kneeling while on the job to express a personal opinion. The other is kneeling on the job to express a personal opinion. They are the same -- except you approve of the content of one and disapprove of the content of the other.
I have the utmost respect for the military. My grandfather served in WWII, my father served in Vietnam, and I served in the USAF. But "disrespecting the military" is expressing an opinion (one that you and I find distasteful). Kneeling to honor God is also expressing an opinion (one that, at least, I approve of).
Duke,
You are about to enter the Vortex of Legendary. Stay away. You can't argue with stupid.
BS. The players started this circus. Don’t let your political agenda cloud your sense of reality.
One is kneeling on the sideline in a personal display of respect after a TD, when others use that time to dance around like fools and make asses of themselves with childish antics. The ones you are defending are kneeling during the national anthem, when one is supposed to stand and show respect. They are making a public show of disrespect to draw attention upon themselves while disrespecting their country. Their intention is to be disrespectful.
If you can’t see the difference between the two situations, then you are hopelessly biased.
I see the distinction perfectly. You approve of one and disapprove of the other. So do I.
They are both still expressions of opinion while on the job -- one of which, because you disagree with the content, you believe is improper while the other, regarding which you approve of the content, you think is fine. In short, your position is that it is fine to express opinions on the job with which Legendary Eagle agrees and that it is improper to express opinions on the job with which Legendary Eagle disagrees. My point is that you should either be totally against expressing personal opinions on the job (i.e. against both) or you should be fine with it (and quit complaining that athletes are abusing their platforms).
In short, a content based determination is really no better than the Antifa who shout down conservative speakers with whom they disagree on college campuses.
You are so far off base it’s laughable. The anthem kneelers aren’t expressing an opinion. They are PROTESTING. In the most disrespectful way possible. Like I said, you are hopelessly biased. There is no comparison of the two.
Hmmm...showing respect for God....not showing respect for America. I'd love to have this conversation with you to determine how Tebow is wrong and the players are right. Players point upward all the time and that was never an issue. It's because some folks don't agree with Tebow's beliefs that they found that to be an issue. And this is a nation under God...the same God Tebow was respecting. The same nation that others were kneeling in disrespect. Trying to see the logic.
Good grief. I challenge all of you to walk amongst our student athletes. Some of you will be shocked. I don't know why, but you will. Our black athletes show solidarity with the NFL's black movement. Some of you will be so freaking butt hurt. Even Ito sports the Kapernick hoodie.
If you can't see that "protesting" is expressing an opinion, then you are correct: there is no point in discussing this, because you are missing some pretty basic concepts.
In fact, no less than Justice Scalia (who I assume you would not call a snowflake) found that burning the American flag -- a much more disrespectful protest than kneeling during the national anthem -- was expressing an opinion. "Burning the flag is a form of expression. Speech doesn’t just mean written words or oral words. … Burning a flag is a symbol that expresses an idea."
WER
Try this hypothetical, two groups marching around the county courthouse. One has posters that say "Praise Jesus, We Love God." The others have signs that say "The U.S. Military Is Corrupt. Down with the Pentagon." Both are expressing opinions using their freedom of expression. We may think that the first opinion is great and the second is disrespectful and stupid. But we don't say that the first is appropriate to march around the courthouse, but the second is inappropriate for the courthouse and that is the wrong time and place. The 1st Amendment case law on this is very clear -- and Scalia's decision in the flag burning case is one of the best examples.
Here, we are not talking about the 1st Amendment - because we are not talking about the government acting to censor expression. Instead, we are talking about the general propriety of expressing opinions at work. My point is simply that it is hypocritical to say that "athletes should not abuse their platform" only when they are taking positions with which you disagree. If all our examples were opinions with which you agree, then we would never have this discussion.
Sane, logical, & well-reasoned. I was trying to make a similar point to N.E. earlier, but you said it much better.
I think you’ve been pretty thoroughly schooled by several people on just how flawed your logic is here.
Having a constitutional right to do something doesn’t make it morally or ethically right. It also doesn’t protect you from getting the wrath that you deserve for intentionally poking people in the eye. Why don’t you go burn an American flag on an Army base or in front of an American Legion full of vets? Maybe when you get out of your coma you’ll be able to join us here in the real world instead of your left wing alternate reality.
I understand the protest, I just think they are doing it with little to no evidence or facts to back up their claims. Black people aren’t being suppressed. There are many, actors athletes, CEO’s, DR’s, Lawyers,Policemen. Firefighters, etc etc...that are black. .many Blake people who try and better themselves and try to get an education are called, “trying to be white”. How?? How is educated and making a better life for your family a white thing? I’m white and I’m not close to being as educated as some of all races.
Black peoplw are stereotyped for being gang bangers, selling drugs. Well stereotyping exsisting because at some point it was the truth and reality. Just like most country music fans like hunting and drinking beer.
Change the culture in which you live in and be better people regardless of race.
My wife and I are very lucky with our jobs and health. I still want my kids to be better than me and make something of themselves and have better education and job than I do.
The reason public schools in my opinion are so bad is because again, the culture in which most live in that attend public schools. They don’t know how tk be respectful and they just don’t care. Teachers can’t discipline kids anymore because kids will either laugh or parents will go off regardless of reason. They always take child’s side. Instead of making their kids behave. So intern, what teacher wants to put up with that on that low pay? Then teachers don’t care and don’t teach with passion they once had. That’s why grades suffer and schools get poor ratings.
It starts at HOME period!!! Have my kids done stupid stuff? Yep, they all have and will, that’s the learning experience. But you have to teach them when the situation arises and not just look the other way because you’d rather look at who posted what on Facebook.
Black peoplw are stereotyped for being gang bangers, selling drugs. Well stereotyping exsisting because at some point it was the truth and reality. Just like most country music fans like hunting and drinking beer.
Change the culture in which you live in and be better people regardless of race.
My wife and I are very lucky with our jobs and health. I still want my kids to be better than me and make something of themselves and have better education and job than I do.
The reason public schools in my opinion are so bad is because again, the culture in which most live in that attend public schools. They don’t know how tk be respectful and they just don’t care. Teachers can’t discipline kids anymore because kids will either laugh or parents will go off regardless of reason. They always take child’s side. Instead of making their kids behave. So intern, what teacher wants to put up with that on that low pay? Then teachers don’t care and don’t teach with passion they once had. That’s why grades suffer and schools get poor ratings.
It starts at HOME period!!! Have my kids done stupid stuff? Yep, they all have and will, that’s the learning experience. But you have to teach them when the situation arises and not just look the other way because you’d rather look at who posted what on Facebook.
Why would it surprise anyone that our guys would want to be like NFL guys? That’s the level they want to get to from a status standpoint as well as a financial standpoint. This is a much bigger topic as those guys are their hero’s instead of their mom and dads, or teachers, preachers, etc.
I can’t believe that we have people on here defending the NFL player’s actions or the Lebrons of the world. It’s not even a matter of republican vs. democrat. As I previously mentioned you can change the ‘players’ to Obama/Schilling and it still wouldn’t be right or good.
I can’t believe that we have people on here defending the NFL player’s actions or the Lebrons of the world. It’s not even a matter of republican vs. democrat. As I previously mentioned you can change the ‘players’ to Obama/Schilling and it still wouldn’t be right or good.
Not sure that you are really reading what I write.
I completely agree that "having a constitutional right doesn't make something morally or ethically right." I think I have said about four times now that I think the kneeling is disrespectful (and for the record, I am opposed to flag burning, and never said that I favored it).
I also agree that a constitutional right "doesn't protect you from getting the wrath that you deserve." Taking positions has consequences, and simply because you can take a position does not mean that you can prevent other people from reacting.
My point has been -- and continues to be -- that complaining about "abusing the platform" is hypocritical and arbitrary if that standard is only used when you disagree with the position being given.
I completely agree that "having a constitutional right doesn't make something morally or ethically right." I think I have said about four times now that I think the kneeling is disrespectful (and for the record, I am opposed to flag burning, and never said that I favored it).
I also agree that a constitutional right "doesn't protect you from getting the wrath that you deserve." Taking positions has consequences, and simply because you can take a position does not mean that you can prevent other people from reacting.
My point has been -- and continues to be -- that complaining about "abusing the platform" is hypocritical and arbitrary if that standard is only used when you disagree with the position being given.
My concern is with the delivery of the message. Kneeling to thank God after a touchdown is making a statement of humility and giving thanks for his performance. Same with thanking God at the beginning of an interview. It is drawing attention to God, not himself. Either way, both usually last a few seconds and they move on.
What we’re talking about on the other side is the constant divisive and abusive statements with lack of solutions to help the situations they oppose. Most of them can’t even tell you why they think what they think. That comes across as desperate and bitter because who they wanted to win didn’t and shame to admit that POTUS is actually following through on promises and effecting positive change.
The worst of it is when they do this while “on the clock.”
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